"The View" co-host Sunny Hostin sparred with ABC News medical correspondent Dr. Jennifer Ashton on Friday over the sensitive topics of pregnancy and miscarriages, and what constitutes a baby in the eyes of some mothers versus the scientific community.
Hostin argued that she and many women feel that having a miscarriage is losing a baby, while Dr. Ashton appealed to science to insist that miscarriages early in pregnancy were "definitely not a baby" and at a certain point not even a "fetus."
The conversation happened during a discussion on Alabama’s Supreme Court recent ruling that human embryos are children under the law regarding wrongful death suits.
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Disputing the court’s ruling during the episode of the daytime talk show, Ashton described the embryo transferred to the mother’s uterus during IVF as a "ball of about 200 cells," adamant that it’s not yet a baby.
She said, "If you look at science, however, science and medicine, what is transferred during that IVF procedure is called a blastocyst. That’s a big word for a ball of about 200 cells."
"When it is transferred into the uterus, there is no guarantee that those cells will continue to divide. There is no guarantee that that cell ball will attach to the wall of the uterus. There is no guarantee that it will implant, and there is no guarantee that a heartbeat will develop."
Hostin, who often reminds viewers she personally pro-life and said she felt the embryos she used in her own IVF treatment were her children, began to dispute Ashton.
Following up on the doctor’s last point, she said, "Does not equate to a live birth, but an embryo is not necessarily gonna become a puppy, right? An embryo’s going to be–"
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The medical correspondent cut her off, saying, "No, not going to be. That’s the point."
Hostin persisted, adding, "No, no, if it’s implanted and if it continues to grow…"
"Nope, but that’s a lot of ifs. There are many steps," the doctor continued.
Hostin continued, asking, "Does it become a child?" to which the Ahston replied, "If, if, if, if, if, if."
"And there are many, many steps along that process… Every person is absolutely within their right to say, ‘When I first conceive of having a child mentally in my mind,’ that’s the moment — I respect that. That’s their opinion," Ashton said.
She added, "But in medicine and science, that ball of cells is not guaranteed for any of the steps that follow."
Not done, Hostin brought up another scenario, saying, "But the other thing is, let’s say you have a miscarriage at two months. Have you miscarried just a bunch of cells or a baby?"
Ashton said, "It’s definitely not a baby. That’s an incorrect term and it’s also not a fetus. "
"But some women feel that way," Hostin said.
"That’s where we have to distinguish between medicine and facts and science and what you or you or any patient, any woman, any couple believes. And we can’t try to make them the same thing," Ashton replied.
According to the Mayo Clinic, most miscarriages occur in the first trimester, or 13 weeks, of pregnancy, and about 10-to-20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, although that number could be even higher. Many miscarriages occur before women even know they're pregnant.
